The problem is getting a committee of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines to agree on those standards….. by the time that committee agrees on those standards for that something, that something has become over complicated (i.e. . $149.00. SIG SAUER, Inc. is proud to announce the Nevada Highway Patrol has transitioned to the SIG SAUER P320 9mm pistol as their official duty pistol. Sig Sauer P320 Owner, We currently have many of our P320 Caliber Exchange kits in stock in both Compact and Full sizes that I am also authorized to offer discounts on. One of the more interesting statements in the report is the fact that the Army discovered the drop fire issue with the XM17 pistols prior to it becoming known to the world with the P320 pistol. Heck, you only save 5 Oz between an M9 and M17. This is not rocket science. The Sig Sauer P320 is also an excellent choice for those of you that live in an area with strict gun laws, for obvious reasons. There will always be problems encountered when mass producing enough guns to accommodate the armed forces and the public. They’d be better off if they just looked at some ammo that doesn’t befoul the 1899 Hague Convention. Then 300 about a month later. I mean its not like your timeline is wrong or anything. Get more stuff n track it looser. $499.99. Mic a few of the dimensions via a set of lowly calipers. How about the F35, How about the FBI Glock, How about the …. I now have zero enthusiasm for buying a new p365 because of Sig’s handling of the P320’s issues. Weren’t you paying attention in science lab? It is, however, a well-known and understood design issue that increases the amount that point of aim jumps on recoil unless you don’t believe in physics. Individuals in this category can receive a refund of the "greater of the original price paid for their P320 (with proof of purchase) or the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price for their specific version" or receive a new P320 pistol of the "same or similar version," the document states. Yes, I own a P320. It may be one of the best 9mm in the market today, considering its size, ergo, capacity, and accuracy. Few of us are foolish enough to actually believe that any tool made by Man is ‘perfect;’ Neither are we foolish enough to confound a mechanical defect that does NOT result in a negligent discharge with one that DOES. There’s a reason why there is so much xm855 and xm885 on the market. Glock has plenty of issues but they are routinely ignored because of the amount of Glock worship in the gun community. Sig Sauer P320 M17 commercial variant of the military contract sidearm. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Hunter Holmes McGuire played a pivotal role in designating medical personnel as noncombatants but had a troubling history... "They should not test us," said Army Gen. Stephen Townsend, head of U.S. Africa Command. Sig Sauer P320 Lima Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol w/ LIMA320 Green Laser Grip, Stainless - 320C-9-BSS-LIMA-G . As a mechanical engineer I’ve been saying this all along–the P320 (along with its parent, the P250) is a dog turd. But it IS your fault when you’d decide to be a condescending ass about it (and yes, I’m aware that I’m also being a condescending ass. 9MM SEMI AUTO 10 ROUNDS 4.7 BARREL NOT SPECIFIED LBS. Thanks in advance. A friend of mine has carried one his entire LE career with me, and fired untold number of rounds through it in that 30 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1AZyH8DutQ. I’m guessing no one bothered looking at the source of the report, and the other programs that were evaluated, and much more significant problems noted. $30.00. The settlement also applies to current and former P320 owners who previously returned their pistol to the company after a "cartridge failure event" and were told that it could not be repaired, according to the Sig document. They should have spent more time testing the weapons system before handing it over to the civilian populace for their beta testing. Its been around about as long as the Beretta, but somehow is totally modern, Hooray for backstraps, (lack of) finger grooves, ambi controls that make previous generations’ slides and barrels incompatible, a safety that we just Dremeled into the plastic, and a needless second lanyard loop that makes previous generations’ magazines incompatible! Shop By. That’s what happens when an organization as big as the army makes a change to a system as big as the M17 project. Featuring a gold titanium nitride coating and lightened skeletonized trigger, the stand-alone, serialized FCU allows shooters to build their own P320 pistol using SIG and aftermarket grip modules, slides and barrels. Fifty-nine of the accused have admitted guilt and will remain at the school under a form of probation. Add to Cart See Details. As the poster above said, this is not new tech. Don’t give me that G decocker crap or tell me about the M9A3 BS…not interested. That’s the worst of the worst. It the abuse the equipment gets in the field. I don’t even like Glocks that much but this should be grounds for a lawsuit. Glock, Glock, and oh yes, Glock. It’s a whole new concept in handguns: make the frame, barrel, slide, and even caliber of one gun interchangeable. I mean a truly evil company obviously used their time machine to manipulate the laws of time and space to ensure they’d make tens of thousands pistols with the flaw, but only after they’d discovered it, went back in time and un-fixed it so that….or something. Anything else, including THE ENTIRE PURPOSE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE MILITARY, is now at least 5th down the line in terms of importance. Problems with every sidearm they’ve chosen since dumping the 1911a1. They should have bought the FNX-45!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone feeling nostalgic for the Beretta M9 yet? Issues were discovered, issues will be discovered. Sig Sauer P320 in Stock at the Best Price! “I will NEVER drop my gun, therefore it doesn’t matter if it is drop-safe” smacks of 1st-Degree Hubris. "SIG SAUER has conducted extensive testing of both the pre-upgrade and post-upgrade P320 pistols to confirm its position that the pistol will not fire with the slide and barrel in an unlocked condition.". Front sight cannot be changed Just another reason to NOT be an early adopter. As someone who used an M9 for more than not looking too unfriendly during a meet and greet with your local terrorist enabler I hated the M9. The 11 by the army were in testing. I guess it’s time to go buy that Desert Eagle, since I’m now aware of these magical slide properties. OEM Sig Sauer P320 Takedown Lever, Tungsten DLC Part# 1300777-02-R Note: Does not include O-Ring (38. With in spec ammo and multiple failures at below 5,000 rounds. The SIG P320 X Five for sale at Omaha Outdoors is a full-size member of the X-Series family that paves the way for all others in its class. xm17 (Army) & m27 (USMC) vs F35 (everybody). Polymer is as far as you can get from “universal” adoption. Oddly enough the SEALs had never had issues with the 92 until then, even though they had been using them since the late 1970s. Oh I love the “cuz physics” argument. Best I can figure, if they’re not talking about a light strike that they are manually racking out of the chamber, is one spectacular double feed. Can I borrow your time machine since you’ve already been to August of 2018 and I’d like to visit myself? . They KNEW it was defective and not drop-safe when the Army testing showed ’em it wasn’t. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. “I do not think that polymer framed hand guns are suitable for US military use. The upgraded design and implementation of the VUP are intended to further enhance the drop safety of the P320 model pistol, according to the statement. I do not think that polymer framed hand guns are suitable for US military use. As far as slides flyinig off give me a break. Pardon my density, but in a world with on-demand, just in time, batch-oriented logistics n for realz mass customization … easing internal logistics with “commonality” seems off point. TTAG has placed a call to SIG SAUER for comment. I love Chris Bartocci. All settlement members who continue to own their P320 pistol would receive a transferable Sig Sauer limited lifetime warranty against any future cartridge failure events, it adds. The military wanted a modular pistol and that’s what they got. Give’me a break…they’ll get it worked out. And these are the die-hard P-Series Pistols that have been around for years. Bore axis is only one factor. It’s a huge project. It was not the locking block, it was tellurium in the steel. SIG chose to design the P320 as a striker-fired handgun with a relatively high mass metal trigger with no trigger safety – despite the fact that this safety feature has been included on almost every striker-fired handgun since the 1970s. When Sig Sauer unveiled the Sig P320 model in 2014, a key selling point was that it did away with this necessity. The wording of the report is not entirely clear on the exact date, but it states the Army directed SIG to develop an ECP, or Engineering Change Proposal, to lighten the weight of the components in the trigger to fix the drop fire issue. "It is Sig Sauer's position that the design of the P320 pistol -- both pre-upgrade and post-upgrade -- prevents the P320 pistol from firing in an unlocked condition," according to the company's statement. Virginia Gov. That is a myth that was purposely spread by Beretta. Sig Sauer P320 Nitron Compact 9mm Semi-Automatic Pistol, Blk - 320C-9 … My experiences have been different. It’s not the number or rounds fired. Required fields are marked *. "Although this disconnector serves as a redundant safety against the pistol firing in an unlocked condition, it is not its primary function and is not necessary to prevent such occurrences.". I also know how to handle my firearm and don’t go around dropping them either. Helping the wrong people with the wrong thing? TTAG cannot verify whether the U.S. Army knew about the P320 drop safe issue prior to our coverage in August 2017. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of its Sig P320 pistol who paid for repairs or upgrades to prevent an alleged safety glitch, which could cause the weapon to fire accidentally. So you’re saying that, no matter what other physics concepts effect recoil (and there are many), the return of the slide will always, no matter what, 100% of the time, no matter what other variable there are, completely negate any kind of recoil or loss of sight picture? Preliminary analysis indicates that this may be correlated with the ECP developed by SIG SAUER to correct the deficiency of the pistol firing when dropped with the safety not engaged.”. “Muh bore axis” not a valid excuse for your poor shooting skills. Note your shock and awe when there are gross inconsistencies between dimensions on seemingly the same model. However, the P320 loses points to the Glock in terms of safety. As you know, the outside of SOF the military cannot accommodate personal preferences. "Yolo, PS5 > letters of discipline," according to the service member. It’s in their interest to find problems. Which will be the same thing guys twenty years from now will say about all of these ‘reports’. Maybe you’d remember that if most of these people and blogs didn’t worship at the feet of Gaston…. Private snuffy uses gear in ways it was not intented. More important is what’s being shot out of the firearm and how much that firearm weighs. Then plot the data. Never heard of that one before. Has a safety that has to be engaged and disengaged with the other hand WON’T cycle FMJ ?!?!? Don’t worry about SIG problems. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Out of Stock. They don’t DO that. Just doesn’t make any damn sense to me whatsoever wasting all this money on a pistol program that turned out to be crap just like six hours usually are. “But it’s heavy and expensive.” I hear what your saying and Imma let you finish, but I counter your argument with the fact THE DAMN THING WORKS! Yea I own a P320, reliable and no issues. That’s why they changed the design from the Beretta 92SB to the SB-F, and why the SEALs switched to the P226 when everyone else was going to the 92. The P320 Carry offers a smooth, crisp trigger to make any shooter more accurate, an intuitive, 3-point takedown and unmatched modularity to fit any shooter and any situation. The new disconnector was included in the company's free Voluntary Upgrade Program (VUP) offered to all owners of P320s purchased prior to Aug. 8, 2017, according to a Sig Sauer statement. If you’re adding an RMR as a future standard, I’d be in favor of that, then that might change things as the M9, without a significant slide redesign, couldn’t use one, and the M17 already has a cut, but the rear sight is on the adapter, who thought that was a good idea. I have a P320, with upgrade. Out of stock. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. A total of 14 slide failures were documented with only 3 by the Navy Seals all of which were in operational use. When people didn’t go away, when multiple people PROVED the damn thing was unsafe (which they already KNEW it was!) Why? . . Could they make the bore a little higher as well…. I’ve had a lot of problems with Sig Sauer over the years with customer service and just junk breaking Inside their pistols. This is it, no question. The plaintiffs in the case -- who number more than 100, according to court documents -- claim that P320 pistols made before Aug. 8, 2017, do not include a mechanical disconnector, a feature that blocks the pistol's ability to fire when the slide and barrel are in an unlocked condition. Sig Sauer P320 Sub-compact or Sig P365: The Final Verdict When it comes to P320 sub-compact or P-365, our final verdict declares the P-365 pistol as the winner. Of course they did. Bring back the Beretta and get over this modular handgun system crap. Remember, Glock NEVER had a recall. The difference is, I’m not doing so completely unprovoked). I am quite certain there are mean failure ratios in the contract that have to be met or the contract will either be adjusted or Sig found in breach. As a Beretta fan (love my Beretta 96) I’m near overdosing with schadenfreude. This is not leading edge technology. The guided-missile submarine Georgia along with cruisers Port Royal and Philippine Sea transited the Strait of Hormuz. Most every “competitor” I know uses a 1911 style, double-stack pistol. Had the government stuck with genuine parts, this would have been a non-issue. correct. As one vet on Youtube said, the Army needed new GUNS, not an entirely new platform. So Sig knew their POS P320 wasn’t drop-safe, and they foisted it on us consumers anyway. That’s it so far, but there’s been nary a bobble with either Blazer Brass FMJ or Speer Gold Dot (150rds). Out of stock. There is another problem that is concerning. Too heavy Following the Senate's approval last week, the House passed the bill Wednesday by voice vote without any objections. New. We stock the Sig Sauer P320 and P250 magazines for sale that are manufactured to exacting standards and precise specifications. Seeing as the pistol is 100% with hollowpoints, and still 60%-75% with NEW SPEC ball ammo, I’m betting it’s some ammo QC issue rather than SIG engineering. So what when I was in the military if you were left-handed or if a weapon system didn’t fit you correctly you got over it you made it work. And, for the record, there has never been a verified instance of any P320 firing when dropped… Nostalgic for slides flying off and hitting people in the face? It’s been 100% reliable from the first day, which btw saw 250 rounds through it that day. The bureaucracy that fielded the report exists to find problems. At least no one got hurt this time. start over from scratch). He’s right. SIG’s P320 is having a hard time staying out of the news. Now we get to sit back and watch Glock fanboys tell Sig fanboys how the Glock should have won and the Glock is better. Those FBI Glocks didn’t have any problems at all, oh wait, the locking blocks and triggers fell out and the slides jettisoned but PERFECTION! Sig Sauer P320 M17 Caliber X-Change Kit. I don’t care if it fits a hundred rounds. All animosity aside, how exactly does a pistol eject live ammunition? Quick view Sig Sauer. They’re worse than Cheaper Than Dirt. Sig P320 and Sig P320 For Sale. It’s like a gun designed by a committee and none of the committee members were talking to each other. Is it time to mention that Glocks don’t fire when dropped, only fire when the trigger is depressed, and feed FMJ ammunition rather well? “Hey, Sarge! These Exchange kits have been very heavily backordered since the P320’s launch last year. Exceptional guns. Only useable by those with gorilla hands then they invited the press in and said “look, we already had this other trigger, we put it in and all your problems are solved.” HOW DID THEY “ALREADY” HAVE THIS OTHER TRIGGER? Looking at the requirements- stuff like “no finger grooves!”- the test was written for the answer, not the other way around. Next question. . . SIG told TTAG that their work on the P320 trigger coincidentally fixed the drop safe issue. . . Nominate Them For A $1,000 Prize From AARP, Fewer Military Recruits Dropped Out of Boot Camp in 2020. Your email address will not be published. The Fire Control Unit (FCU), the driving force behind the modularity of the P320, now stands on its own - enabling an entirely new level of customization and personalization in the world of firearms.P320 Custom Works FCU; countless options, endless possibilities. I’m sure that Swat Officer who got shot in the leg felt the same way, before he got shot in the leg. “Get over it”, and “make it work” hurts feelings, and as you know, in an organization whose sole purpose is ultimately to kill enemies and break their shit (and who have historically done a phenomenal job at that), ensuring that nobody has their feelings hurt is the #1, and #2, and #3, and possible also #4 priority. But if you do that the data might point away from what you’ve already decided. New. I just don’t like the way it feels, it’s just too damn big to be wrapped around the 9mm cartridge. It contains several interesting facts about the pistol program. F*** Sig. Tellurium is added to increase machinability, by increasing chip breakage. Why they didn’t just switch to the fnx or fns is beyond me. Sig Sauer how about you get off your ass and actually beta test your product before turning it over to civilian populous to use as a self defense weapon system! If the M17 is going to be a primary weapon in the future, or at least integrated more, then the training curriculum really needs to change, so it might be an issue, in 3 years. Misguided? That statement implies that the person making it will never stumble, trip, sweat, bleed, have a mini or major stroke, a coronary event, a muscle cramp, or a momentary inattention, and is, in fact, ‘perfect.’ Did you know some shooters put lighter recoil springs in competition pistols to prevent…wait for it…muzzle dip! Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The SIG P320 price at Omaha Outdoors drives tacks through the competition. I really think that the United States Army should shitcan Sig Sauer. That isn’t just irresponsible, that’s irresponsible to the point of depravity. The settlement requires the gunmaker to … Going to a tellurium free grade steel and adding radii to those corners fixed the issue. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Fixed a very long time ago. So, I suspect that the lighter trigger installed for the Sig Voluntary Upgrade Program and in current production, has the same weakness. I get putting less work on the shooty guys. Would you be so kind as to pick me up a copy of the Wall Street Journal? And I’m just sitting here with my CZ P-09 that I can’t get to malfunction no matter what I do…. So, Seans, I had the details wrong, but the way you put it actually sounds worse than I thought it was. Special Price $99.92 Regular Price $129.00. Also, load-bearing contact surfaces seem undersized in some areas, and oversized in others. Without knowing the “proper” temper, it just reeks of gross inconsistency. As part of the design upgrade, a mechanical disconnector was added to "enhance trigger feel and consistency, as well as to prevent a dead trigger condition when the trigger has been pulled with the slide retracted," according to the statement. They had a defective product, they knew it, and they shoved it on us anyway. I am certain that every single Glock that fires when dropped, or fires without a trigger pull, has been recalled. If this agreement is finally approved by the court, these individuals may be entitled to certain benefits, including continued availability of the P320 VUP free of charge, a lifetime warranty against specific kinds of damage to the firearms, and a potential refund of amounts previously charged to repair firearms or replacement of unrepairable pistols.". Load up a magazine in capacities from 9 to 17 rounds. If your left handed you should learn to shoot right-handed before basic training was over. © Copyright 2020 Military.com. It’s almost like a repeat of the turn-of-the-century Colt automatics which had the same problem of slides flying off. “I am here to tell you there are no safety issues with the P320…. But why not just keep the M9. They knowingly, purposely, sold a known defective product that could hurt people, to innocent customers. If they didn’t find any, they wouldn’t be doing their job and probably wouldn’t exist for too long. The GAO report is quite clear. Now we are seeing the results. The subject of this article, the P320 X-Carry, has seen a recent spike of interest on the national and international … Too large The government actually has pretty high standards. They can suck on their own barrels and drop-safe their triggers right in their mouths for all I care. I don’t know, I’ll stick with systems with a proven track record, not this LATEST AND GREATEST BS. Even worse, the report recommends the Army engineer some fixes “upon identification of the root cause” of the ejection issue — a statement that indicates the branch hasn’t yet identified the source of the issue. I would far rather have a pistol that defaulted to ‘safe’ if something goes wrong, than one that fires itself instead. Their entry into the striker fired market is the p320, a welcomed sight in a stagnating market and a very real replacement for Glock pistols for CCW and general shooting.Not sure about gun action… Grayguns Sig Sauer P320 Competition Adjustable Trigger System - Straight . Sig Sauer P320 Compact 9mm / .40 Auto / .357 SIG Large Grip Module, Black - GRIPMODC943LGBLK . Right?! The M9-A3 addressed all the Army’s issues except for the slide mounted safety. The Glock 19 is one of the safest guns you’ll come across. Hardness all over the place on the same key parts varies wildly from one gun to the next. What specific design or production elements render it poop? Notify When In Stock. If I’m going to tote around gun that big it’s gonna be launching a bigger bullet too. The service's M17 and M18 MHS pistols feature an upgraded design and have "passed the U.S. Army's testing protocols," according to Sig officials. Marines have not even begun to budget for these and are buying G19Ms for deployed. This is not an F-35 or even an M16. I’m no Sig fan, and don’t want to start an Internet brawl. . That’s insane. Add to Wish List Add to Compare. Buy Glock…..its not “Americas got talent” or a beauty pageant…it has to work and work well…….and GLOCK WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SIG SAUER Custom Works has unleashed the soul of the P320. The Beretta is an excellent gun as far as function too. /sarc. Regular readers will remember our ongoing coverage of the polymer pistol’s drop safe problem, leading to a “voluntary recall.” We now learn that SIG knew about the issue long before it hit the media . That’s a shit ton of guns. just reinvent the wheel…. The revelations contained therein are anything but bland. Maybe you should try actually gripping the gun instead of letting it flip around. Only one of them could positively say that they were using hot ammo. Should have completed the tests before choosing. For the most versatile pistol, available in an extensive variety of models and features, the Sig Sauer P320 for sale right here is one that can’t be beat. Find out why the Sig P320 was awarded the 2016 American Rifleman Golden Bullseye "Handgun of the Year' award. The military relies heavily on space-based technologies to keep its edge on the battlefield. You can find the Sig Sauer P320 and P320-M17 for sale here, along with Sig P320 magazines, holsters, optics, lasers, and accessories. An Iraqi military statement said an "an outlawed group" launched eight rockets targeting the Green Zone. It’s perfection -‘ just ask the FBI about their get 5s. Soldiers have been know to use the butt end of 1911 as a hammer. Obviously Glock should have been in ….In both 9mm and 45 acp ! That’s EVIL. The Army will regret it. Because the same physics exist when the slide returns to battery, putting the pistol right back where it was. That was due to the fact that the US Government was sourcing non-Beretta manufactured locking blocks from a third party lowest bid vendor who didn’t properly manufacture the part to spec. If approved, the settlement would refund any money paid to the company by current or former P320 owners to have their pistol repaired after what it is calling a "cartridge failure event," according to a settlement information document from Sig Sauer. It also reduces fatigue resistance. US shooting competitors run their handguns a lot harder than the Army does and they have universally moved to polymer framed pistols. Sig Sauer to Settle Lawsuit Over Alleged Safety Glitch in P320 Pistol, More Than 70 West Point Cadets Allegedly Caught Cheating on Math Exam, Iraqi Army: 8 Rockets Target US Embassy in Baghdad, Virginia's Robert E. Lee Statue Has Been Removed from the US Capitol, Justice Dept. This is why it baffles me when they had a pistol system that worked but it didn’t fit good and smaller people’s hands. !….GOOD G#D ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All this because someone in Washington wanted to punish Beretta for moving out of Maryland after the state passed an assault weapons ban. Add to Cart. You want our government to spend more money than it already does?? NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. This ECP-updated, non-drop-fire pistol was the one which took part in PVT, or Product Verification Test, beginning in April 2017. The U.S. District Court for the Western District of Missouri is scheduled to hold a hearing June 25 to consider whether to approve the settlement and a request for attorneys' fees and expenses of up to $850,000, plus a payment of $1,400 to $2,800 for each named plaintiff, according to Sig Sauer. The slides would have fatigue cracks at the corners of the notches where the locking block ears would engage the slide. After almost a year and 5,000 rounds, let’s take a look at how the SIG Sauer P320 XCompact did. I’m feeling nostalgic for the Glock 19. Sig Sauer P320 RX, X-Five, TACOPS, X-VTAC on Sale at the Best Price in TX There was never a documented issue with any of the American made weapons. “The Pentagon’s overview on its gear and tech programs in 2017, conducted by the Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation and released earlier in January 2018, indicated that both the XM17 and XM18 pistols demonstrated a series of persistent problems, including accidental discharge, ejecting live ammunition, and relatively frequent stoppages when firing ammunition encased in a full metal jacket.”, ……..I see no problem here…..SAYS NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!